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241

Vadkh wrote:

Sandr написал(а):Вернее, если ловить блох, то, именно в данном эксперименте, ротор влият на результат, но не диаметром, а массой - более тяжелый ротор что бы вывести из состояния покоя, нужно приложить большее усилие.Посмотри вторую часть.  Масса ротора увеличилась на 1грамм, радиус на 20мм (примерно) нагрузка выросла в полтора раза. Тут.Масса ротора само собой играет роль как заполненность шпули.

Ещё раз повторяю: говоря о диаметре ротора, ты (и, возможно, не только ты) путаешь причину и следствие!
Если  разбираться по ступенькам, то не диаметр ротора важен, а диаметр шпули, а в конечном результате, даже не диаметр шпули (это промежуточное звено, как и передаточное число) а вымотка за один оборот ручки (величина которой и зависит от совокупности диаметра шпули и передаточного числа)

Last edited by Sandr (Dec 27 2014 18:43:56)

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242

Sandr wrote:

location times repeat: To mention the diameter rotor, you (and, perhaps, not only you) 're confusing reason and a consequence!
If deal on stairs, then not dozen rotor is important, and dozen shpuli, and in the long a result, even not dozen shpuli (this bridge link, as and ratios) and vymotka for one turnover pens (the magnitude of which and depends on the aggregate diameter shpuli and transfer number of)

Edited Sandr (Today 18 :43: 56)

You "on anybody modicum his teshi" I over- by has proven as is important guidance ranges rotor, as and reduce leverage handles.
And about reasons and allegations,. The shield through transmission of twirls an archer's bow rotor, and perishing then comes the filament winding on shpulyu.
Dozen shpuli was unchanging, vymotka, too, their, weight rotor widened on mere 0.5%. And burden on the handle has risen in and a half times.
If woodgrain example you says nothing, we not about than communicate.

Last edited by Vadkh (Dec 27 2014 19:19:08)

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243

Vadkh wrote:

Sandr написал(а):Ещё раз повторяю: говоря о диаметре ротора, ты (и, возможно, не только ты) путаешь причину и следствие!Если  разбираться по ступенькам, то не диаметр ротора важен, а диаметр шпули, а в конечном результате, даже не диаметр шпули (это промежуточное звено, как и передаточное число) а вымотка за один оборот ручки (величина которой и зависит от совокупности диаметра шпули и передаточного числа)
            Отредактировано Sandr (Сегодня 18:43:56)Тебе "на голове хоть кол теши" я опытным путем доказал как важен радиус ротора,  как и плечо рукоятки. А насчет причины и следствия, рукоятка через передачу вращает ротор, а уж потом идет намотка на шпулю. Диаметр шпули был неизменный, вымотка тоже неизменная, вес ротора увеличился на 0.5%. А нагрузка на ручку возросла в полтора раза.  Если наглядный пример тебе ничего не говорит, то нам не о чем общаться.
            Отредактировано Vadkh (Сегодня 19:19:08)

Ещё раз проведи свой эксперимент- на одной и той же катушке (тот же самый ротор!) но разные диаметры шпули ( можно та же самая шпуля - но в одном случае намотано чуть-чуть лески, во втором случае - шпуля полностью "забита леской", удобнее на катушке с глубокой шпулей) и ты увидишь как изменится усилие на ручке (из за изменения длины намотки за оборот ручки)! И тогда поймешь кому нужно на голове кол чесать!
З.ы. На примере каких именно катушек (назови конкретно две катушки) ты "доказал" что важен именно "диаметр ротора"?

Last edited by Sandr (Dec 27 2014 19:35:56)

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244

Sandr wrote:

location times cafe its eksperiment- on one and the same a coil (the same the most rotor!) but different diameters shpuli (can be the same the most shpulya - but in one case wrapped around it slightly-slightly filament, in the second case - shpulya fully "bar stoned fishing line", feel more comfortable on a coil with deep shpuley) and you witnessed as will change effort on handle (from for changes length winding for turnover pens)! And then'll understand who needs to on anybody his scratching!
Z. Policies. On example any precisely coils (good specifically two coils) you "has proven" that is important precisely "dozen rotor"?

After first yours office, I advised watch second part of test and exile gave.
And you here demagoguery fuckin 'playin' :angry:

Last edited by Vadkh (Dec 27 2014 19:41:07)

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245

Sandr wrote:

. On example any precisely coils (good specifically two coils). "Has proven" that is important precisely "dozen rotor."


One coil, but with different degree of winding twist are spaced on shpulyu - see Post # murdered 168 - boonce!:glasses:

"All ukra. Proven even before us! " :hobo:

Last edited by Dood (Dec 27 2014 19:43:38)

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246

Vadkh wrote:

? After first yours office, I advised watch second part of test and exile gave. And you here demagoguery fuckin 'playin'
Edited Vadkh (Today 19 :41: 07)

Increasingly ??? killed time and looked.
You even nothing not understood from its experiment! Your experiment with provolochkoy proves only one thing (and nothing another!) - as important, that would move the commercial lesoukladyvatelya! On provolochke have you huge losses on friction filament about stringing! Dozen rotor nor with! Take out the commercial lesokladyvatelya from had to, Ah! Stabilize (zaklin) axis such a same diameter as and provolochka, and atoning the same effort as and on provolochke!
From whom when any zaklinival the commercial lesoukladyvatelya, the understands about fix I say - effort on handle sharply increases!

Last edited by Sandr (Dec 27 2014 20:05:59)

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247

Sandr wrote:

There ??? killed time and looked.
You even nothing not understood from its experiment! Your experiment with provolochkoy proves only one thing (and nothing another!) - as important, that would move the commercial lesoukladyvatelya! On provolochke have you huge losses on friction fishing line of yours about stringing! Dozen rotor nor with! Take out the commercial lesokladyvatelya from had to, Ah! Stabilize (zaklin) axis such a same diameter as and provolochka, and atoning the same effort as and on provolochke!
From whom when any zaklinival the commercial lesoukladyvatelya, the understands about fix I say - effort on handle sharply increases!

:D

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248

Vadkh

You over for gaining funny?
Homilies see effort by lifting the the commercial lesoukladyvatelya, leaving one axis, miss to let the line out through this axis and zamerte effort and increasingly find.

Last edited by Sandr (Dec 27 2014 20:28:41)

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249

Sandr wrote:

year over for gaining funny?

There is no over you.
If come from your assertions the in many on kapronovye clenched (instead bearings) that have Tiananmen common ground in hundreds of times more, than I have in as provided force friction in kilograms.
Simple example. Believe the rate friction kaprona to have become the same. Square rubbing elements in vtulke with domestic diameter of 3mm and glubinoy4mm equal 3,14kh3kh4 = 37.68 mm2 Square rubbing elements in as filament about with staples equal 0.1kh0.2kh1mm =0 .02mm2 Now will do the proportion of the 0.02mm2 -150gr, 37.68mm2 - X Read more himself i.e. American).
Yes you such a coil not pull off this. So that not need to all to write off on force friction.
And the commercial, an impulsive act of and again test will make.

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250

Vadkh wrote:

No over you. If come from your assertions the in many coils kapronovye clenched (instead bearings) that have Tiananmen common ground in hundreds of times more, than I have in as provided force friction in kilograms. Simple example. Believe the rate friction kaprona to have become the same. Square rubbing elements in vtulke with domestic in diameter 3mm and glubinoy4mm equal 3,14kh3kh4 = 37.68 mm2 Square rubbing elements in as fishing line of yours about with staples equal 0.1kh0.2kh1mm =0 .02mm2 Now will do the proportion of the 0.02mm2 -150gr, 37.68mm2 - X Read more himself i.e. American). Yes you such a coil not pull off this. So that not need to all to write off on force friction. And the commercial, an impulsive act of and again test will make.

, my friend! Not be stupid!
Not important, on fix the commercial revolves - on vtulke or podshipnike! It is important, that would the commercial do worked!
Repeat, molitvakh experiment (times perishing you love experiments to do) with lifted trailer lesoukladyvatelya!
And not forget, that the commercial coated with, and your provolochka - no!

Last edited by Sandr (Dec 27 2014 21:07:04)

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251

Sandr wrote:

Don’t important, on fix the commercial revolves - on vtulke or podshipnike! It is important, that would the commercial do worked!

Himself itself mind, do you, force friction no one not revisit it, especially in controlled strictly for bearing slip (vtulkakh). Nor one’not will reduce the rate friction in hundreds of times.

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252

Vadkh wrote:

Sam itself mind, do you, force friction no one not revisit it, especially in controlled strictly for bearing slip (vtulkakh). Nor one’not will reduce the rate friction in hundreds of times.

Not get so panicky demagoguery! Do experiment! :flirt:
Incidentally, have these in liner shower, when low koef. Friction, yes plus ’!

Last edited by Sandr (Dec 27 2014 21:22:00)

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Sandr wrote:

Don’t get so panicky demagoguery! Do experiment! :flirt:
Incidentally, have these in liner shower, when low koef. Friction, yes plus ’!

In than the principle difference, work forces friction in vtulke from work forces friction movement filament on skobke?
So explain the music :flag:
And the only vbrosy dumpin '.

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Vadkh wrote:

No one’not will reduce the rate friction in hundreds of times.

And here is here you again not rights!
Try slow on machine on receives and means the road, 'Arry, and then pour it back practicing on asphalt and Zatormozi again! There and in a hundred times little will! :crazyfun:

Last edited by Sandr (Dec 27 2014 21:35:31)

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Vadkh wrote:

! In than the principle difference, work forces friction in vtulke from work forces friction movement filament on skobke? So explain the music A the only vbrosy dumpin '.

They (forces friction) in these two cases absolutely different largest.
Need not debate. Molitvakh experiment.

Last edited by Sandr (Dec 27 2014 21:41:47)

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256

Sandr wrote:

Don’t need debate. Molitvakh experiment.

Arguing you, I already explained how Square rubbing surfaces different. In my case she in hundreds of times less than Square friction in vtulke. Comparison in wheels here not ????, different materials (the ice-rubber and asphalt rubber) under same Tiananmen grip.
Here umestney compare friction seahorse and leaf have become Square slip which in hundreds of times more than Square blades seahorse.
So, that not need to cancer for stumbling win.
And test I will, after weekends, not afraid. Question in another, ready whether you, if so implicitly removal of in its righteousness, put "on gamble upwards" bottle French brandy, to example. :flag:

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257

Vadkh wrote:

A test I will, after weekends, not afraid. Question in another, ready whether you, if so implicitly removal of in its righteousness, put "on gamble upwards" bottle French brandy, to example.

This very difficult to acquire for me. And here is if I'm gonna end up rights (and so and will!) the gladly will take whatever steps are from you :cool:

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258

Sandr wrote:

A here is if I'm gonna end up rights (and so and will!)

Above than that obtain, need to guarantee ability to give. And dream not harmful.

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259

Vadkh wrote:

Sporish you, I already explained how Square rubbing surfaces different

Incidentally, and you in rate, that force friction not depends on Tiananmen rubbing surfaces? For you this revelation?
So here is, know, force friction depends on’loan friction and forces impact! :crazyfun:
You would better the mechanics and physics for starters devoted!
The, that you're putting experiments, this well! But you so ignorant in this issue, that even not don, what conclusions correctly to do from your experimentation! 8-)

Last edited by Sandr (Dec 27 2014 22:31:14)

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http://asset-a.soup.io/asset/6371/3875_ad79.gif

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261

Sandr wrote:

So here is, know, force friction depends on’loan friction and forces impact!


And tiles Loganson not exist in nature that whether? :dontknow: the School program this well, but donationware payload with scraper still never, and not whom not has punched head, as the argue tasks in Physics. Pro-making simplify need not forget.

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Oleg_GOR wrote:

well, but donationware payload with scraper still never, and not whom not has punched head

On whose head, when, and with no scraper stagnated donationware? And What the dignity was the kind donationware? To return accented very different! 8-)
And you are right! That would deal in this issue at least WerE schools program, this RIGHT WELL!, at least better, than full ignorance, and misunderstanding essence underway!

Last edited by Sandr (Dec 28 2014 10:01:03)

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Sandr wrote:

What would deal in this issue at least WerE schools program, this RIGHT WELL!, at least better, than full ignorance!


Ah first, need not abuse nor in whose worded. Let us to live small. :flag:

Second, on school program virtually cannot be nothing find. Only birds on the Frost. So and led example with make a quarter disappear.

Third, the partition equations added up in school program from 1968 this far not science equations added up. There again all on Different. Here is to example: You talked, that Square the surface not is participating in per forces friction. In school Physics - yes. In life is participating, and still as is participating. I not for good reason led example tiles Loganson. And Square the surface hand parallepipeda (in terms friction and camping on To, there not the length on wide. And "blot" contact a function from deviations ploskostnosti the surface, and its roughness.

Fourth. If want point to socialist on mistake, there is nothing easier, than lead calculation, or put its experience. All can be wrong. And you, and I, and Vadim. Truth knowing whom he works, (think with termekhom and sopromatom even 4000m2 as well as every day faces) under assumptions them critical mistakes sat would not on Forum. (Ugh-Ugh-Ugh, Vadim, whether better on Forum.

Is in no least not hit-and-run, simply invitation to comfortable and constructive conversation,. :flag:

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264

Oleg_GOR wrote:

No in is least not hit-and-run, simply invitation to comfortable and constructive conversation,.


Like would to know, "Hu from where" in respect forumchanina, lurks under Nick Sandr?! :question:
And the is obtained conversation with biased to "classified, secret the lnquisition" with Vadim the Petrograd :rolleyes:.

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Oleg_GOR wrote:

Sandr написал(а):Что бы разобраться в данном вопросе ХОТЯ БЫ школьная программа, это  УЖЕ ХОРОШО!, по крайней мере лучше, чем полное невежество!Ну во-первых, не нужно оскорблений ни в чей адрес. Давайте жить дружно.   
            Во-вторых, по школьной программе практически нельзя ничего посчитать. Только птиц на ветке. Поэтому и привел пример с монеткой.
            В-третьих, раздел Механика в школьной программе Физики это далеко не наука Механика. Там опять все по другому. Вот к примеру: Вы говорили, что площадь поверхности не участвует в расчете сил трения. В школьной физике - да. В жизни участвует, и еще как участвует. Я не зря привел пример плиток Иогансона. И площадь поверхности стороны параллепипеда (в разрезе трения и т.п.), там не произведение длины на ширину. А "пятно" контакта зависящее от отклонений плоскостности поверхности, и ее шероховатости. 
            В-четвертых. Если хотите указать оппоненту на ошибку, нет ничего проще, чем привести расчет, или поставить свой опыт. Все могут ошибаться. И Вы, и я, и Вадим. Правда зная кем он работает, (думаю с термехом и сопроматом аж каждый день сталкивается) при допущении им критической ошибки сидел бы не на форуме... (тьфу-тьфу-тьфу, Вадим, будь лучше на форуме)...
            Ни в коей мере не наезд, просто приглашение к приятной и конструктивной беседе.

Не занимайтесь демагогией! Слишком много слов, не относящихся к делу!
Возмите под нагрузкой (например кормушка весом 100 гр.) крутаните ручку катушки, а затем сбросте леску с ролика лесоукладывателя на дужку и снова крутаните ручку катушки, и вы сразу почувствуете изменение усилия на ручке, из за изменившейся силы трения.

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Dood wrote:

We wish we would to know, "Hu from where" in respect forumchanina, lurks under Nick Sandr?!

"That in behalf of you my?" (With)
This, at all, as the to trial applies? :flirt:

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267

Sandr wrote:

"What in behalf of you my?" (With)
This, at all, as the to trial applies?

And where only moderators are suspicious? :dontknow:

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Truth knowing whom he works, (think with termekhom and sopromatom even 4000m2 as well as every day faces) under assumptions them critical mistakes sat would not on Forum. (Ugh-Ugh-Ugh, Vadim, whether better on Forum.

By how he stubbornly had hoped. "Square rubbing details", and influence this the most "Tiananmen" on force friction, me utterly is obvious "professionalism" this Mr. in this exemplified issue :flirt:!

Last edited by Sandr (Jan 12 2015 17:05:14)

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Dood wrote:

And far only moderators are suspicious?

Ah yes, only to within your helpless in appealing and remains!
Remain, - Nazdrovia, in their-! But not need to confuse head other. :nope:

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Oleg_GOR wrote:

If reproach someone save the world, make sure in is.

Another Flud and patter is from you.: '(

Last edited by Sandr (Dec 28 2014 11:27:32)

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