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As choose place it?

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To be sure, the answer on this question can be to formulate one cliche: Borrow need to such place it, which suited and which likes. The same applies to choice wife, car, costume and camping on D. On the second point of (about likes) say has little to: On taste of and color comrades there is no. On first - can be write entire volume. Not sensing themselves ready to such a feat, I'll stay tethered to deployment more a narrow themes: That helpful know about design udilisch, to not enter in the wrong one when choosing cordage.

Choice rods up

Most udilisch, frequently today serious sketches, manufactured from carbon fiber. All about him say, but little who in it ?. That same this for pleasant thing? Carbon-fiber reinforced plastic - this some kinds of polymeric composite materials (known also as polymeric composites and reinforced plasty), i.e. materials, in which any polymeric the cohesive (matrix) armirovano (enhanced by) sorts of coffee varying degrees of nature.

On structure of filler these materials podrazdelyayut on:

- aieieienoua (reinforced fibers and nitevidnymi "Renaissance);

- manufacturing (reinforced films and camping on P.);

- dispersnoarmirovannye (with honeycomb in the form of tonkodispersnykh of particles).

Speaking about ugleplastike when applied to udilischam, we have in mind dangerous a compositional material from polymer glue, glass reinforced uglevoloknom.

Speak English carbon fibre will carbon ReiserFS appears, and interesuyuschiy us material - carbon ReiserFS appears-reinforced polymer (CFRP). But long puzzle British, terms very often are shrinking until one-two words, and in iaeoiaa carbon fibre for udilisch usually call carbon ReiserFS appears (, American-style - carbon fiber) or simply carbon.

This reduction played with sketches malevolent joke, concentrating their attention on properties carbon fibre. But rods up something incisions at all not from net carbon fibre, and from carbon fiber, and so properties used fibers - at all not the only and even not chief factor, which is related on characteristics rods up.

Incidentally, in America and in Asia carbon fibre often call graphite (graphite), that, strictly speaking, wrong. Like would, nothing terrible, but this contributes even greater mess in terminology and will distraction theoretically nepodkovannykh fishermen, allowing worldwide easily confuse them head. Here is all and say about my own rods from coal , from this temperature delta , from graphite , but about svyazuyuschem quite forget. But let's stop until on fibre are considered.

IM6, IM10, IM12 - who more?

One of the most ordinary and vibrant ways manipulation clear conscience fishermen it turned out juggling names brands carbon fibers. The very this fiber is issued at all not those factories, which what is rods up, and in other enterprises, spetsalzuyutsya on his production. Fiber case different species, and for order to distinguish these species between themselves, every producer allocates them name - Mark. In its time some Mark have become very popular, and these used circumventing suspicious traders. But about everything on order.

With the carbon fiber interest us species today most often receive from poliakrilonitrilovogo fibers with the help oxidative of pyrolysis and stabilization in has gas, with poliakrilonitril (PAN) undergoes complex multistage processing on special manufacturing lines. Maximally simplifying, this can be to imagine so, that with very strong coldness from PAN misbalance all excess substances and remains almost that one carbon, takes achieve escape structure.

In dependence from features of processing source material, on exit receive carbon fibre with those or in other qualities (near, durability and stretching of), from which make threads lead. For production udilisch requires fiber not the first... gave you, and with specific properties. Happened so, that some Mark fibers corporations Hexcel (one of largest in the US producers carbon fibers), namely IM6, IM7, IM8, were the topic in name those series udilisch, in which corresponding fiber was attended. Part of models of these series had success have fishermen, received broad prominence. And prominence - this capital, which here same unholy strip on pieces different little people, conquered write on their cheap sticks , us about the in Chinese infamous 16th floor, cherished indices IM6, IM7, IM8, IM9. Has peaked deal until IM12. Especially have sinned (and continue to sin no) these Germans, Poles, but meet calligraphy IM12 and on my own rods trade homes from other countries.

Gradually in the consciousness of fishermen leave any particular emotional feeling (not without aid good guys-marketers), that IM (ah-um) - this the modularity graphite , and than more the number of, which goes after letters IM, those the modularity higher and those rods up better. But on fact? And that at all this for reduction - IM? As it stands for?

IM = middle module

But on fact IM - this Intermediate Modulus , more accurately - intermediate Modulus fiber , i.e. fiber middle module (supple). Heh-heh. Our experience rods up from sverkhvysokomodulnogo graphite IM12. - and such a soba continue to us posibility to set on ears until now. But as at all the case with distinguished by versatile modularity ?

In this case there is in mind module supple, or module Yunga, - the magnitude of, well resistance material be tensed or compression under resilient distortions actually. Quite simply this can be explain as force, the necessary for distortions actually web certain parameters on a certain magnitude.

Is measured module supple most often in gigapaskalyakh (GPa, GPA), and also in shit tons of forces per square meter, or same in million ?per square an inch (MSI), with 1 MSI = 0.7 tonnef / m2 = 6,89 GPA. Americans prefer begin operating meanings in MSI, but in tables usually point out and GPA, the British like gigapaskali, the Japanese same more tend to to gigapaskalyam and tons generating. Because Pascal - this newton, divided by on meter square, then the difference in the significance of the module, acesta acorda incredere Guvernului in gigapaskalyakh and in shit tons of per square meter, boils down to difference between nyutonami and of currently forces (1 kgf = 9,80665 H). In one word, to with small the rounding transform gigapaskali in ton, which in the process have personnel Asian factories (where and is issued the overwhelming majority udilisch, enough roll back from source number of one "zero" added.

With the carbon fiber, naphtha from poliakrilonitrilovogo fibers within standard process, has module supple roughly 32-35 MSI; usrednyaya, usually say about 33 MSI or 24 shit tons of. For example, carbon fibre Tokyo / Mark T300 has module 23,5 tons, and have Hexcel most from low-cost brands (AS) - 33.5 MSI. Today fiber precisely with so module goes on production cheap ugleplastikovykh udilisch primary levels. Conditional support his can be called nizkomodulnym, although on practice so usually no one says: Still would - not sounds !

If not to dwell on standard version 33 MSI , then under complicating processing is obtained more educators carbon fibre, with more high module supple. In average this 42 MSI or 30 tons. Such fiber already markedly more expensive, and in States his usually call srednemodulnym (IM). For example, have Hexcel DM HexTow IM6 has module 105 MSI (28.4 gives), DM IM7 - 40 MSI (28 gives), and Mark IM8, IM9 and IM10 - 44 MSI (30.8 gives). Under the report module supple Mark carbon fibre IM8, IM9 and IM10 differ between themselves on other characteristics, in particular on that of the overstretched and relative decline prolong the (and this is important for udilischestroeniya, which markedly escalate in IM9 and even more - in IM10.

Currently prepregi, elaborate from 30-ton srednemodulnogo fibers, widely are used in production popular udilisch, i.e. from low-cost and tackle shop with carrying workers characteristics. Popular and highly sounds like a nice trademark 30-ton fibers is Tokyo / T800.

Under even grander complicating and udorozhanii manufacturing process receive vysokomodulnoe carbon fibre, with module, for example, 55 MSI (38.5 gives), for example, Tokyo / Southall Railway Station. Conditional support can be, perhaps, considered vysokomodulnymi (when applied to udilischestroeniyu) fibers somewhere from 50 MSI (35 gives) and higher. Case carbon fibre with distinguished by versatile modularity and in 60 tons, but in production udilisch it not is used. And not because, that very costly is worth, and because, that for these goals not Felix Blumenfeld.

Typically, than higher module supple carbon fibre (i.e. than it harsher), the less his the tenacity, the more fragile (under other equals) have yielded from him rods up. On practice vysokomodulnoe with the carbon fiber is used in udilishche combined with srednemodulnym and even nizkomodulnym, because for obtain the right by building different parts of rods up must behave differently. That is why cannot be call any-mark carbon fibre best for udilischestroeniya. The or different fiber well not in general , not bayts, and only on its exemplified place.

Let's note also, that the notion of vysokomodulnoe with the carbon fiber - high tech Modulus carbon fiber - indeed conditional support, nothing and to all not is regulated by and no standards on him there is no. So for odurachivaniya buyers without scruples or perspective... traders can quietly to declare their products from 24-ton or 30-ton carbon fibre vysokomodulnymi , not fearing, that their attract for this to responsibility. Formally something attract their not for that! And if in snout them move, so himself same for this then and sit down.

Still is worth have in mind, that carbon fibre interpolate in next on several thousands of nationalists threads in every. One thousand is denoted by both the K, to it is actually added figure - number of thousands of. For example, 1K, 3K, 6K, 12 Huron, 24K, 100K. I.e., 100K = 50 100,000. These inception raze not are linked nor with quality fibers, nor with his distinguished by versatile modularity.


But until this all was only pro fiber, and from one fibers, as we already talked, rods up not do. Whips (or, as still say, letterheads for) udilisch make from of a bulk. Prepreg (pre-preg ,, reduction from pre-impregnated composite fibres ) - this with the carbon a ,-soaked dog transitional (resin compatibility), the very material, directly from which and are currently running rods up. With his production the situation such a same, as and with production fibers: Plants-manufacturers udilisch not make nor uglepolotna, nor of a bulk, and embedded prepreg on the side.

The main mass udilisch, represented in the domestic market, made from of a bulk, originating in China, Korea and Japan. Itself geography production directly not affects the quality of of a bulk, but understandably prepregi Japanese firms, where would they nor charging, in a whole better, than prepregi Korean, and those, in turn, better, than prepregi Chinese. Are well known and rank high prepregi, produced the relevant departments, Japanese corporations Tokyo / and Mitsubishi. Of course, when rods up manufactured in one country, and prepreg imports from the other, can, in principle, arise different neshtatnye situation. For example, if the Japanese suddenly take and will imports his of a bulk (as strategic material!) in China, have someone will encounter trouble.

With the carbon a differs not only on type Yankee-fiber supplemented, but and on their location. Fibers can be directed in one side (in my own rods - as rule in one) or in different, interwoven those or different way. And prepregi, respectively, differ still and on mind and number of glue. Than less in preprege glue and than more carbon fibre, those udilishche dryer, easier, stronger, but those more sensitive than it to shocks, those rather it (this regardless of modularity carbon fibre. For convenience prepregi with low bones of glue (low produced content ) often PNV are hereinafter referred Low produced , but the share of glue in them can be different, for example 35, 30, 25 or 20 percent. Sometimes say still about Ultra Low produced - sverkhnizkom content of glue. In the usual same preprege, so-called a normal , or standard (standard produced content prepreg), contains, typically, order 40 percent glue (and sometimes and more).

Theoretically, can be done place it from of a bulk with distinguished by versatile modularity carbon fibre 46 tons and share glue 40 percent, and it proves more heavy and it, than place it from 30-ton carbon fibre with 25 interest glue. This, of course, purely hypothetical example, but he well shows, how justifications are empty abstract reasoning about modularity fibers.

Moreover, high-quality modern udilishche, to give him the right workers characteristics, make, typically, from several species of a bulk. Different parts of rods up have uneven tasks, so and material for each of parts of better apply a special. For example, vershinka rods up on fishing strongly it bends and for it queens use too tight and fragile carbon fibre from high-modulus-fiber supplemented. Supplied in, contrary, should not cover, rigidity him simply is necessary. Special article - joints, with whom always case many parent pain. Of well-salmonella seams - vizitnaya card, high-quality rods up.

So, prepreg - this - Instant rice to assemble a udilisch. In the process his production with the carbon a propityvaetsya transitional, slathered a special wrap and coagulates, in the roll of. Then these coils represent on plants.

Typically, to store and go these coils should, strictly while taking the ordained temperature regime, and this is by no means bedroom temperatures. If same on the way there is still customs, such Russian. But there is no, not worth about sad things.

Relations with producers of a bulk are largely determined weight of the buyer. Large buyers easier to talk to suppliers, they even can turn material on its the specification, while small is occasionally accented forced to content with leftovers with grown ups' the table. Buyer usually serves plant-manufacturer udilisch. Here is you another argument in favor of choice serious a plant.

Technologies on factory-manufacturer

Of course, caaiao not enough simply buy prepreg, need to something with him do next. From of a bulk vykraivayut trapezius billets (often this a host set of pieces wrong forms, from motley material) and reel their on metal Dorn, riverbank geometry future rods up. Dorn, more accurately kit dornov, caaiao, too, need to somewhere order according to the specification for this rods up.

A big problem is that for work with modern prepregami, varying by low bones of glue, are required special technology and equipment. Marketers do (for these technologies beautiful name, for example, HVF, SVF, MSG or UTC. One and the same technology, massive data-mining exercise on one and same factory, can winemakers on ready my own rods differently, in dependence from-plus contracting and from Mark, under which will be sold rods up, and even from market (countries or groups countries). But importantly, that in the old equipment work with new materials cannot be. Need other machines, allow correctly also wind on Dorn prepreg with low bones of glue. Forth, prepreg on Dorne need, you wrap technological ribbon with particularly small step: Thanks to primary move winding this cases about very densely and evenly obzhimaet a form. Such a operation usually is called Micro Pitch Taping. For it, too, need a new machine. Finally, under transition on work with Low produced account for to change and furnace. 69.38 heavily, and far not all plants are prepared immediately on them go. So many high-quality rods up manufactured on enterprises, along in South Korea, not in China. Nevertheless, in the last time already and in China some enterprises began to of well-work with Low produced. Of course, udilishche can be issued on plant, which in principle works and with Low produced , but done from standard, more cheap of a bulk. So if relations with bolt formal and familiarity nodding, to the customer need to Fuehrer caution: Sovrut - not costly take. Ah, and bottom-line consumer, rybolovu, deal in these nuances and moreover harder.

Namotannyy on Dorn and wrapped in ribbon prepreg is sent in stove again. Temperature regimes ovens not especially afishiruyutsya. Above all they depend from type glue and only sketched they broadly similar. Typically, in furnace a form first heats up, with the cohesive pervades in all schelochki ; then under more high temperature layers spekayutsya, and then all ostuzhayut.

Then is retrieved Dorn, cases about is deleted and the whip is sent on from grinding and charged, if they envisaged. Some whips remain neshlifovannymi.

Engineers are all

7A engineers in Korea and especially in China usually well deals in matters, directly concerning manufacturing processes, with whom they deal, but only dimly perceive imagine properties udilisch and laws physics, from which these properties spring. Treat about such things is borne on Designer. In an ideal case Designer or designers there is have companies, zakazyvayuschey caaiao rods up. On practice same most often deal, consider world far easier. Many European trade homes, even highly more, not have their implementers, and all their ranting about own meeting bureau, where are collected best specialists countries - bluff. The typical house consists of couples-troika directors, accountant, General and it with warehouse operations workers, and also system even natural. Director of, zero-interest-rate in role snabzhentsa, is sent in China or in Korea. If he himself poorly is oriented in Chinese affairs , then refers to ou , or them to a middleman, which helps him find an opportune plant, being invoked with right people. On factory him show samples products, which were manufactured by East on the specification more competent customers or developed their forces, usually by mechanical copying known models. A guest from Europe, in a fishing trip full dilettante how to do, to pokes finger at in favorite him pattern, and factory designer (have majority European TD there is no even their designers) suggested a changes external kind of rods up in accordance withs wishes-plus contracting or same simply commands on it an appropriate with the signature the logo. Model is ready, all happy with. Almost all - for serious the fishing trainer such udilishche, likely, will look like as makdonaldsovskiy Whopper on backdrop of present lunch.

Of course, have a major, serious producer, for example have dayvy or Simano , there is its DOS, and in some cases and its production (though often and they locate orders on the side). But there arises another problem: These giants not want or not can (and sometimes and the and another immediately) account for needs fishermen in individual countries, even such big, as Russia, and in a timely to respond to these needs. Respectively, rybolovu account for choose from their entire rods up, make quite for the other fishing, which more or less suited and under his conditions.

There is still one, the average, path. Small firms, in Capetown which there is enthusiasts-fly fishermen and that engage in production dedicated cordages for local conditions industrialized fishing, today have opportunity, attempt certain efforts, receive high-quality products, working directly with Korean and Chinese factories. Of course, no DOS and even simply Designer-a professional they afford to not can, but after all and rods up now very rarely are being created with white leaf. Typically, for the groundwork drip irrigation already the existing model, and by changes geometry and selection materials on its basis of is done something new. For such work enough Horton contractor with broad to think, understood the mechanics work rods up, an expert in modern external relations materials and technology and in nuanced one Korean and Chinese factory cuisine. But importantly - to he was an avid fisherman and enthusiast of of their cause, i.e. literally lived fishing and creation of udilisch, investing the in them its soul. Precisely such people lacks, typically, European trading homes, where almost all think only interest and where cordage - only one way earn, accurately such same, as sealing compounds, Coca-cola, condoms and laying a. Have us same in Russia such people, fortunately, there is.

Work over new pounder begins with design Designer. Tossed hand their fingers on the pulse domestic fishing, he and captures all changes and feels, that requires rybolovam in this moment. Speech under this goes not about popular appeal (masses would still, than harvest, and for them there is "off-), but about more basin and discriminating people who and comprise, strictly speaking, the backbone of national fishing community.

Designer sees, that existing model not can satisfy many of new needs, and accepts measures: Works over geometries (length rods up, the thickness of the and structure walls, konusnost), manufacturers with fittings, pick prepregi. This process does not stop there never. In moment exit new model its successor already exists if not in the form of-style, then at least, in the form of project.

On outset work over pounder Designer chooses plant, on which will be implemented the fabrication udilisch. Typically, company works with several factories. In Korea and in China now many enterprises, strongly between themselves on level sophistication and culture production. Some specialize in mass production cheap products, others can to do rods up very high-quality, but and prices have them higher. Respectively, Made to Order on mass model will is placed on one factory, but on model high class - at the other. Ah, and still can be spare options or the search something new.

Further goes delegation is geometry the whip and concrete picking the prepregov on modularity fibers and number of glue. Under this makes sense navigate on Japanese prepregi, if only speech not goes about series primary level, for whom Japanese prepreg too roads and because is used the Korean. From Chinese same better until to cling away.

Nemalovazhny picking the fittings and its the positioning,, too, affecting workers quality rods up, but this far not importantly.

Very not be easy explain of Korea or the Chinese, what exactly from them want, and traced, to all was met according to the specification. Comrades on factory floors, typically, not like awaken from their standard options and tend to sabotage instructions prityazatelnogo-plus contracting.

The next phase - tests samples. Experience shows, that without stand alone practical ?? tests do outstanding tackle virtually impossible. And such tests require time and forces. On least identify shortcomings in pillar a new rods up amends changes, then come new samples.

As all of this not it seems on simple option, when, katyas on path path of least resistance, customers simply choose on factory something increase and enable in a series of under its trademark! And after all ultimately everyone vystradannomu udilischu, on the creation which so much just devising and in which went with very souls developer, will have compete on market with standard, soulless with sticks competitors, on kind of little than from him varying by. Until there still people gonna figure it out, that to what.

The findings of this

So, that we have in separating phonecalls made?

1) Everyone talk about Deutschemark and modularity carbon fibre (A what here coal? IM12? There is no? And here is have them IM12! ) - wastes time and are provoked unconscionable ".

2) Knowledge brands used of a bulk (and this information rarely bit "entre nous") allowed would rybolovu with sufficient to think draft some understanding of udilishche. But such fisherman will understand all and so, by taking over udilishche in hands.

3) its udilishche - this not sverkhdorogoe carbon fibre and even not the most the best prepreg, and of well-, wise the chosen materials, geometry and Hhardware plus enough high culture production. Under this prepreg and Hhardware not necessarily must be the most expensive, they only must respond require, to the challenges pounder.

4) It stands pay attention on domestic producers, indeed alumni developing udilisch under our conditions, not which aim its the stigma on standard kitayschinu / koreyschinu. ???? should account for profile producer (spinning, poplavochnaya - a fishing rod, donnaya - a fishing rod): As a on than something one, some firms have several non-core models for entire , and these model rarely find themselves (at least.

4) Ultimately, only on fishing can be understand, suited you tackle or not suited. If there is no opportunities try model in fact before-buying, then account for listen to advice those, whom trust. Some companies spend festivals and demonstrations products within competition, to potential buyers could experience their rods up on a reservoir. Good fellows.


Theme this large, and I only described basic moments, on than something Blankenstein slightly much detail, and something not affecting quite. On-good, deal pulling on graffical! Hope, that in the future materials about how and from what incisions rods up, will become regularly exits in light and on much will reveal eyes rybolovam. Still one my article (in two parts of) about my own rods was published in the past year on site And the first appears and searching designated Russian realms material on the subject prepared the, how me known, Kirill Gushchin have taken part from World the fishing trainer , few years ago. Buoyed by case, want express him its gratitude of for a valuable information and useful exile.

The author: Dmitri Balichev



Enlightening too. And the author has attitude to production udilisch?
Shared paranoiac on such a full name several papers on karpfishingu



Useful, for enlargement outlook, and also cognitive article. :f lag

Quite ??? transparently and understandable for potential of the buyer comes Shimano, positioning all their fidernye rods up stand (Qatana, Nekseyv, Bistmaster and camping on D., every name fits a particular that rods up) and tests (Lite, Volkswagen Jetta TDI, heavy and camping on D. - usually this is expressed in hewed - 50, 80, 110 and camping on D.
At least established a certain algorithm - under their conditions industrialized fishing first choose a corresponding name (material) rods up, and then an opportune test. In my opinion.



DoodFully agree. The, that dura-Ace indeed clearly describes its line of goods personally for me played greater role - I immediately figured me out for themselves level of, coming from budget, a. Then and has acquired. Although not leave me thought, that for those same money (approx. 1,000 Grzywna (.) I could buy something not less, and the and more interesting from Krasnoarmeysk, Saratov Oblast, Browning or Spro, however the impossibility their identify without orientation solely on price policy has moved me precisely to yaontsam))



2Vsem: And tell, please, not met whether who where any HTML are comparative characteristic: Udilisch different producers on classes? Or I again too much want)

Last edited by Gepard (Jan 13 2011 15:40:27)



Carlos wrote:

and tell, please, not met whether who where any HTML are comparative characteristic: Udilisch different producers on classes? Or I again too much want)

I eiaee by many udilkami different firms, but, even podnapryagshis, not was able would such a draft :( Everyone udilki different, often even different model one line of one and the same firms differ on properties and better targeted.
Far easier advising man under conditions industrialized fishing. He says - want udu for Lake. Impose an obscure, fish much. Him in the answer - have this firms the, then and this, and have the - here is this. And there see himself, that more accessible on money and opportunities purchases.
And unfolding on art in one spreadsheet all udilki different firms. Me seems, that this it is unrealistic :)

Last edited by worm (Jan 13 2011 11:41:21)



Carlos wrote:

could buy something not less, and the and more interesting from Krasnoarmeysk, Saratov Oblast, Browning or Spro

All of this very relatively and ambiguous.



worm wrote:

this it is unrealistic


relatively and ambiguous.

:cool: - I understood already, aha.

Last edited by Carlos (Jan 13 2011 11:55:26)



worm wrote:

far easier advising man under conditions industrialized fishing. He says - want udu for Lake. Impose an obscure, fish much. Him in the answer - have this firms the, then and this, and have the - here is this. And there see himself, that more accessible on money and opportunities purchases.

100% That so realistically draft for themselves misconception about different price categories and models from different producers in them. And then in one price categories to compare something. Because as to compare khevik for 50ue and khevik for 400ue in principle can be, but difficult



And here is, it seems, article Kiralla Guschina … ype=snasti



Carlos wrote:

Although not leave me thought, that for those same money (approx. 1,000 Grzywna (.) I could buy something not less, and the and more interesting from Krasnoarmeysk, Saratov Oblast, Browning or Spro

Lest be (political correctness) relative to dukes Badardinovu, pro Browning I nothing to speak not d. But about Krasnoarmeysk, Saratov Oblast and Spro Id say. Even quite recently (Spring - autumn 2010) in price categories 1,000 Grzywna (were shimanovskie rods up series of BEASTMASTER. On their characteristics none of udilisch Krasnoarmeysk, Saratov Oblast and Spro in this sort type of price bracket and near not stood with shimanovskoy a series of BEASTMASTER. This a series of the most selling and the most popular from all shimanovskikh udilisch, not this whether chief a sign of estimates consumer this series of? And this on backdrop of moreover, that have shimano there are and more budgetary series of.
To many not thought type "ah from Feederals organs is 74about Shimano another answer we and not waited", stuck terms of global all point over "i."
I contrary view some here not am representative dura-Ace and no personal zainterisovannosti in sale and promoting products dura-Ace I have no. I so same not am nor member of team dura-Ace, and so same not get no additional compensation from sales products dura-Ace. We (The Barracuda) are working with any firms and trading brands, restrictions there is no, in including and with Krasnoarmeysk, Saratov Oblast and Spro, if would that the indeed interesting appeared have these firms, it would (meaning fidernye rods up these firms), here same appeared in barrakude. On todays day in price range 1,000 Grzywna (nothing such a, that can be was would contrast on characteristics BEASTMASTER have these firms, alas there is no. At least of what there is in Ukraine. And firm Spro (representation which is in Dnepropetrovsk) I at all have attended times in month, on subject personal familiarization with assortment of.
Widely emphasize its attention on fidernykh my own rods shimano I began just couple of years ago and the, only after a careful research trends market.
Incidentally, am asking discern, that its attention I aktsentiruyu not on all south Akron and models fidernykh udilisch shimano. Under recommendations, I never then I knock it down below series of CATANA. And mostly recommend people, that the ranging with BEASTMASTER. And again same, I never no one not recommended extra-- kheviki from shimano, as on me this not rods up, and the most real Batons. This, as would proof that I not blindly believe in entire products this firms and not say, that any product with label "Shimano" - this unambiguously surer-of each and take people his not fiercely without much consideration.
Proposals several reasons on which I increasingly ??? acknowledge preference this firm.
1. Negligible the percentage of other an marriage, (with across products) and very high the reliability of in period exploitation. I already even forgot when in the last time on renovating obtained what either udilishche or coil shimano.
2. Enormous inzhinernyy potential, a clear otsleshivanie trends market and the timely responding to these trends.
3 Mailbox Availability and the availability of product. The availability of product this perhaps the most vazhnay factor. Without this factors all the rest, the above lose its sense.
That bribery from talk a and NetTradeX Mobile puts, when a potential buyer not can its to purchase from-for its absence of.
As example, want lead Messiah--as problem with armchairs Korum. I not know, that is happening with demand this caused to on other forums and not on forums at all, I has on our Forum. And a commonplace speaking me seems, that such same picture with this EU everywhere. On the early the situation with desire to purchase this chair and the impossibility this do from-for his everlasting absence of me behavior surprised, but now, when I hear about search of whom the from forums this chairs, I simply smile, because as on 90% am confident in the results search and the result this will negative. I have this the situation simply in anybody not behind, AS such at all can be :dontknow:, when there is demand and demand not small and his not can satisfy. Hi,, we same not in Sosetskom Union live. And almost accurately such a same history with supplies of fidernymi udilisch English producers.
I can be would gladly, instead shimano offered people British, stick, but with such their supplies of on Ukraine, until even speech about this be not can.
If there is difitsit, then why his not remedy the. Me this terms of very powerfully with rosiyskaya firm "Sabaneev," with his a series of fidernykh udilisch Foton Pro, there guys quickly realized quick ifthey were going in what classroom and tackle shop and in what range price there is gap and have filled his. Plus to this competent reklamma product, secretly sponsoring its team TEAM SABANEEV and here is he outcome - this a series of fidernykh udilisch not only not has perished in a similar products other firms, and clearly has found its place among equals and even emerged demand. Echoes the right marketing can be sense the even on Ukraine, udilisch this series of on large thirteenth time no one saw, and demand (let even and not big) there is. That OK, can be only sphere a white envy and children from team TEAM SABANEEV, for something that there is-spender zainterisovannyy in team from Trade Mark and very producer SABANEEV, for what of well-red line of being able to the study needs market.
The reason deficit products English firms, likely in is, that small companies (which are dilleremi English firms now) from for lack of funds simply not in able in full least sate market been a product of. The only hope, that over time dealers in order these companies will become more financially prosperous companies, I think, that vivid example of the - this company flagship, in assortment which starters skip products (popular products!) some known English firms and as many already turned attention, the on this products already much more comfortable.
All vysheperechislenym me criteria on todays day fits products firms dura-Ace, here is on this under recommendations me udilisch and coils (for the rest not fidernuyu products on fidernom Forum I spread not d) I all ??? acknowledge preference this firm.
Not has restrained its and wrote, if whom offended, then sorry.

Last edited by Feederal_74 (Jan 13 2011 21:17:49)



Very of well-and on trial written! (However, as and always :))




worm wrote:

very of well-and on trial written! (However, as and always)

All or her limbs for such a assessment of! Of well-, explanatory and essentially. Recognized equipped article in neighboring subject about game, tested time, carefully ve Romeo :cool: (as would some who not sought to its vulgarized ")



Carlos wrote:

as would some who not sought to its vulgarized "

Vulgarity emerges from nothing to acquire say :crazyfun: :rofl:



worm wrote:

very of well-and on trial written! (However, as and always).

Yes, brilliant Vitalya! After such a his nor for that not would trade ? ? their Shimanki. Thank you!. :cool:




Boev (): "" Foton Pro, .

. . .  :dontknow:
-... .  :crazyfun:




interior fill and Ukrainian gap in this sphere. But fear such a thing as price range of can section (surprise anyone. Russia not far not for "family verge" and prices its products charitably is surprising. Woodgrain example inertsionnaya coil "roach" that in it such a supernatural from "Nevsky" and the price in wholesale sovereign 200 bucks. For unit product. For the reason director of (familiar) retailer refused take even couple of samples on tested. Fear as would udilisch from Sabaneya not has this would mean fate in Ukraine. In stores I on this-mark nowhere have us in Kyiv not worthy

Like there is Elite Alliance



IgoreK wrote:

Sort of there is Elite Alliance

We have even company "flagship" - realistically the first in country on production and supply fishing cordages. Fidernaya program, too, represented well. Fidery flagship - separate theme. Many with them started and many them gets caught until now. Indestructible back then model the Corsair, Pride and GrinLayn have become already moreover. :cool: ElitAlyansu far.



Boev wrote:

Wu us there is even company "flagship" - realistically the first in country on production and supply fishing cordages. Fidernaya program, too, represented well. Fidery flagship, separate theme. Many with them started and many them gets caught until now. Indestructible back then model the Corsair, Pride and GrinLayn have become already moreover. :cool: ElitAlyansu far.

I only glad, that there is Ukrainian producers. Which fill representing a qualitative commodity not only Ukranskiy market, but and Russia, undermine Moldova, trough Your this reaffirming.



Feederal_74 wrote:

Dont has restrained its and wrote, if whom offended, then sorry.

Well written :cool: How always, convincingly eloquent! Thank you :flag:



Feederal_74 wrote:

trying so hard to be (political correctness) relative to dukes Badardinovu, pro Browning I nothing to speak not d. But about Krasnoarmeysk, Saratov Oblast and Spro Id say. Even quite recently (Spring - autumn 2010) in price categories 1,000 Grzywna (were shimanovskie rods up series of BEASTMASTER.

Vitalik, thank you for policy correctness, but I themselves already feel were kind of a douche because'm using Browning (like such was the undertone political correctness.

Admit, post a handsome, persuasive, and more than on here is such examples

Feederal_74 wrote:

Skyfall their characteristics none of udilisch Krasnoarmeysk, Saratov Oblast and Spro in this price categories and near not stood with shimanovskoy a series of BEASTMASTER

This don masses. Me moved by so same when I boy left all alone He on Preston and so same as you compared this deal with Talium from Browning. I then, too, thought. And nah me pay more, and ??? decided to buy itself Talium. Although there order price differs in been.

But together with those, I enleve sometimes and on rods up not from Browning, and most importantly in certain conditions they me like. Here is pro Krasnoarmeysk, Saratov Oblast like would say a little bit of a, to not thought that I'm pushing here ideas industrialized fishing on Browning. So here is. There is I have one a device, fidernyy Diabolo from Balzer-62nd IAA Car Show with test until 115gr. Admit yes, dubovat. I not know Vitalik, there is whether have dura-Ace (forgive but until not familiar with catalogue this firms) such musculaire and test a device, but the right word, if would we been caught on Desna (disambiguation), with domestic hand reverberates (contest there not can undergo), then I more than am confident, that with many khvalyonymi devices which are permanently running and from Browning's in including. Someone was would in deep J. In comparison with a stunted fool from Krasnoarmeysk, Saratov Oblast.
I already long simply not Passoa for themselves rods up on Brenda's and coolness to you their in dependence from prices. Alongside nekotoromyi devices which are permanently running, trust me me and dura-Ace, too, near notin some conditions industrialized fishing. As the same "Dalnik."

But the such. Long can be to speak, and questioning near or not cordage. Simply over time come to what not the whole the kind music likes precisely you, which ranks appropriate seats in hit parade. ;)

For post on dura-Ace thank you. For people a useful. And this importantly!




Over post on dura-Ace thank you. For people a useful. And this importantly!

'm gonna join you. Like would, on opportunities, read Your estimates to example the same browning



Article yourself a nice, funky! Thank you!
People and truth come to the results of that in the article been described, themselves. But over time. Here is fully with author agree in this! Because and himself already long not'm chasing for brands, and buying, I'm just trying a, and fully agree (and spoke and here pro the and not times) that place it can be understand on a fishing trip and ship types- wet under conditions industrialized fishing. Plush article for those who past already recent-branded fashion passions. Although far without them the?

Last edited by (Jan 14 2011 04:04:33)




fidernyy Diabolo from Balzer-62nd IAA Car Show with test until 115gr.

Roma I have there is an analogous a device only in length of his 2.7 Dam - nor have one offices nothing such a I not met. But on River under it comes to shagging under with their feet (most often the coastal strip brovka) this the unit simply is indispensable and until replace his nothing with which :(



Romeo wrote:

Roma I have there is an analogous a device only in length of his 2.7 Dam - nor have one offices nothing such a I not met.

I have such same 3m - 'm, popular a series of :cool: :D already 7 years in authoritarianism, increasingly raze break the not can :D
Have mikady there is a similar (a series of chances, for example)

Last edited by worm (Jan 14 2011 08:40:53)



worm wrote:

I have such same 3m - 'm, popular a series of already 7 years in authoritarianism, increasingly raze break the not can

Here is those on. Themselves on that fishing the, and then on Forum genitals now prestonovskimi, shimanovskimi yes brauningovskimi meryaemsya :rofl: ga-ga-goink :crazyfun:

And none of these vaunted hacking brands so and not had bothered to do the that realistically need people% -)

Last edited by Romeo (Jan 14 2011 08:45:27)



Romeo wrote:

That those on. Themselves on that fishing the, and then on Forum genitals now prestonovskimi, shimanovskimi yes brauningovskimi meryaemsya :rofl: ga-ga-goink :crazyfun:

And none of these vaunted hacking brands so and not had bothered to do the that realistically need people% -)

I wrote, that he I have there is, not that I on him enleve :D not enleve him already years as several :dontknow: It hurts specific vesch% -) Although, the first couple of years was my the main health and, in including and on sorevakh :)
Now sometimes works as zakormochnyy Picker (for zakormochnaya kormukha for him - nivapros :)) ah and as guest / one sometimes :)

Last edited by worm (Jan 14 2011 09:03:07)




A Romka ??? ?? ? ? nostalgic for "drynam."

???? here the dick, dude? He grams 170 just weighs. Simply a form capable are very big weight pay kdlya Mr. Picker here. Throwing good them 80 grams crime as + fodder! :cool:

If would constantly catching on Donce, fuck the bought would itself Diablo 4 a series of from Balzera in length of his 3.9 until 120 grams and not have practiced upon head! :cool:

Last edited by Romeo (Jan 14 2011 10:23:09)



Incidentally in this year these pay kty Mstislav put it Dick I won in Dnieper River sorevnvoaniya on dneprovskoy La :crazyfun: and catching I gusterku grams on 30 and ukleyu grams on 5 :rofl: and around me people Oh than only not catching I recognized get a complex began :blush:

Last edited by Romeo (Jan 14 2011 10:24:55)



Itself! There goddamn emoticons were! I joked!


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